Swamy exclusive: DMK unbeatable, Vijay a non-factor, Modi has made India irrelevant

Subramanian Swamy has never been one to mince words — and at 86, he shows no sign of starting now.

In a wide-ranging conversation with The Federal, the former Union minister, BJP leader and Harvard economist calls India "a colony of the United States in one sense in economics," accuses Prime Minister Narendra Modi of rendering India irrelevant on the world stage, and dismisses the BJP-AIADMK alliance in Tamil Nadu as no match for an "unbeatable" DMK.

On the Iran crisis, trade policy, Tamil Nadu elections and the state of Indian democracy, Swamy is, as ever, unsparing.

Edited excerpts:

How should India respond to the Iran crisis and the US-Israel attack?

There are a tremendous number of easy ways out. India should go to the UN Security Council and say that this has been violated by these two Americans and the Israelis. How can they go and attack and destroy and kill without the UN being allowed to examine their points? So, they go straight. Now, there's no UN. Nobody is there talking about the UN.

So, I think it is a big, big blow for democracy that the United States and Israel—Israel because they are under pressure from the Americans—have bypassed the Security Council.

There is also a controversy whether Iran really has nuclear weapons or is capable of developing them. So what if they have or have not? Why should there be any doubts about it?

If America knows that they have already made the bomb, do you think anyone in this world will be sensible in dropping the atom bomb on anybody? That happened only once in 1945, but at that time nobody hid it. Today Iran does it and then America does it—what will happen to the world? The whole planet will disappear. So nobody is going to use it. It's all talk.

Has India made a mistake in its stance, especially after the Prime Minister’s Israel visit?

First of all, Mr Modi went to Israel without any invitation. And we just don’t know why he went. What Mr Modi has done has got nothing to do with the fight between the United States, Israel and these people. Therefore we are not playing any role. We are nowhere.

There was a time when we could have thrashed the Pakistanis. After America’s president came and said stop it, you stopped it—why? Wives were watching their being brutally murdered by Pakistanis [Pahalgam attack] and at that time you didn’t say anything. But Trump only said ‘stop it’ and he stopped.

Where does India stand in the US trade pressures and oil embargo politics?

Americans are businessmen. They will charge high prices. They are not going to give any concessions. Tell me one concession they have given—absolutely none. They say if you go to Russia or China or North Korea, we will put a ban on you. I mean, what are we?

We are actually a kind of a colony of the United States in one sense in economics. America on the one hand attacks Venezuela, then tells India there is an embargo on Russian oil—you cannot buy. Temporarily you were given permission. Who the hell is America to give us permission? I want to know.

I am not anti-American. I got a PhD from America, was a Harvard University professor. I have defended them. I am pro free economy, not socialism.

That’s why Americans will never say anything against me.

Is Donald Trump’s foreign policy driven by domestic compulsions?

Trump has got his second term—four years, of which one-and-a-half years are over. After that nothing will happen. So he’s having fun.

How do you see the political landscape, especially in Tamil Nadu?

There is no organised force in Tamil Nadu except the DMK. The DMK is clever enough to have alliances very quickly. Others will be squabbling—my seat, your seat. I got a call from someone who wanted a ticket. I asked who is going to pay for it. He said that’s why he is calling me. I said I am not here to give tickets.

People are just crazy because once you get a ticket, people come to you for help and give you money. This is all that’s happening. It is very sad.

Will the BJP-AIADMK alliance help in Tamil Nadu?

No. The question is what kind of workers they have. You are going to give money, the DMK is going to give money, and voters will see who is going to win and vote for that.

DMK is unbeatable as of now. I won because my propaganda was better than DMK in Madurai. So DMK is the party to beat.

If the BJP were to give me Tamil Nadu and say for five years you are the master, I am sure I will defeat the DMK. But people are afraid—Swamy will come and demand more, tell Modi to step down.

Why should I? I write books, meet students, address them. I don’t need this.

How do you view actor Vijay’s political entry?

I don’t see anything. DMK is in power, has cadres, and I don’t see any reason why they can be defeated.

If DMK is defeated, the entire credit goes to the Tamil people. But they will regret it and bring back the DMK.

What about West Bengal politics?

The lady there [Mamata Banerjee] is very good and a fighter. She has an organisation. My guess is that she will win.

Is the national political discourse declining?

Absolutely. BJP will have to go through a cycle of falling down and then being picked up. With Modi, there is a lot of negativeness.

How do you assess Parliament functioning and the economy?

I didn’t read much of it. It is nonsensical. Leave alone economics—I saw the debate on television, they were shouting. What about the economy? It is in a very bad shape for the last two years. If somebody from Modi’s side says so, have an open debate. They will not do it because they know nobody will come out.

They know I am a long-standing Harvard professor. Many are terrified, but many are friendly with me too.

Why have you stepped away from Parliament?

There is no use my going to Parliament because Modi will not let me speak. He will not give me any session. Six times I have been to Parliament. The sixth time was terrible because Modi wouldn’t let me argue on anything.

The only thing I argued was banning cow slaughter. The MPs liked it because I gave a scientific analysis, but he would not implement it. Even today cows are being killed.

On foreign policy, he won’t let me speak. Even on cows now they will mind. So what is the point? If people come and request me, I will consider. But I am not going to ask them to make me an MP again.

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